#TheTechHustle Podcast 🎙
#TheTechHustle Podcast 🎙
Backstage with BobbyD: Featuring Portia Kibble Smith
Embark with us as tech trailblazer Portia Kibble Smith takes us through a riveting recount of her career, from the days when Xerox copiers were the pinnacle of office technology to the rise of the personal computer at IBM, and the mobile phone boom. Portia's story transcends her corporate triumphs, delving into her passionate pivot towards educating and mentoring the next wave of engineers, ignited by a moment of stark realization about racial biases in hiring practices. Prepare to be inspired by her journey and the transformative choices she made as a single mother, which not only shaped her path but also blazed trails for future black engineers in the tech industry.
We're also peeling back the layers on the educational gaps facing aspiring tech professionals today. With Portia's insights, gleaned from her work at Karat.com, we uncover the chasm between academic theory and the practical skills coveted by Silicon Valley's elite. Hear about Anthony's awe-inspiring ascent from Compton to Google and how he's contributing to a thriving community through Brilliant Black Minds. Our discussions underscore the necessity of real-world interview practice—emphasizing that the key to acing that dream job lies in authenticity, communication, and the courage to be your unapologetic self.
Lastly, we zoom out to the broader horizon of diversity and opportunity within the tech landscape. By spotlighting Brilliant Black Minds' work in matching skilled candidates with tech giants like Uber and American Express, we champion the cause for equitable representation in the C-suite and beyond. We wrap up with a compelling message on the significance of mentorship, transparency in compensation, and the essential art of negotiation. Join us for an episode filled with powerful stories, practical advice, and a vibrant community rallying to ensure that the brilliance of black minds is not just recognized but revered.
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Welcome, welcome, welcome to our next episode of the Tech Hustle. What up, D-Hustle you out here? I'm here in Atlanta. Guess where we at Atlanta, we're a little bit far away from home player? Yes, we are. I'm feeling real good about the weather too. I'm feeling great about it. Actually, I'm lying, I don't like the cold. I love it, I love it, but welcome all you all to our next episode. We got a special one for you. This is Backstage with Bobby D.
Speaker 2:Let's throw it up for him, let's give him a round of applause for the audience.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys, thank you for tuning in and we have a special, special guest for you all. It's someone that I've been honored to run into and definitely be a part of her journey, supporting her, supporting the organizations that she's involved in, and she's definitely looking to pour back into our cup. So let's give a big round of applause for our next guest, portia Campbell-Smith. Portia, welcome, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much, portia, for pulling up. Portia's obviously pulled up in Atlanta for a different reason. You're originally from where.
Speaker 3:Kansas City, kansas of the kansas city chiefs. Okay, I'll give you that all right, here we go. Patrick mahomes fan over here. Yeah, yeah, no doubt I like it.
Speaker 1:You already know, so you better not slip up. Player giants, fans and part of our show. Also, we have a sports section, um, and he holds down all the sports section, and we really had some good, good things to say about kansas city, right, good, good things, good things.
Speaker 3:Okay, kelsey too, yeah, kelsey, oh, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I definitely want to just jump right into our conversation today, Portia. Portia and I have had a chance of working together and really just working on developing the next generation of engineers as the kind of foundation that I always really focus on myself. But I know that you've definitely had a great journey and we want to start off with the beginning of your journey. So tell us a little bit how you got into tech and then we'll jump into the company that you're working on.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I will tell you I consider myself an OG in tech. Oh, okay, shout outs to the OGs out there. Yes, because when I first started in tech, I was working for Xerox. Oh, she's taking it way back, way back. I'm doing the way back clock. At that time, xerox had large copiers.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I was there selling door to door when we came out with the desktop copiers, so that was late 70s. And then I got recruited by IBM, which was at that time.
Speaker 2:Shut up.
Speaker 3:Yes, that was the Google of the day, for sure, 100% yes, and so I was always in sales, and so I was in large system sales at IBM, and I was actually there when we first created the first personal computer.
Speaker 2:Wow, yes.
Speaker 3:That's amazing yes so that journey was, I say, ibm stood for. I've been moved. I grew up in Kansas City, went to St Louis, dallas, atlanta, dc, denver, all through.
Speaker 1:IBM. She said these streets ain't new to me.
Speaker 3:Not at all, not at all, yes, yes. And then I ended up going back to Kansas City and starting to work for what, at that time, was the largest employer outside of the government was Sprint. So that was long before we had cell phones. So I was actually there when we created our first cell phone.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:So at that time when I was working for Sprint, we had developed a program, a rotational program called the Staff Associate Program, where we were bringing in people from the top business schools to work at the company as we created the new division for mobile phones.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's what's up. So you've seen the evolution of tech.
Speaker 3:Oh I have.
Speaker 1:If I think about Xerox to IBM, it's just mind-blowing in terms of just where we started from to where we're at, yes, and then being in sales. I know you was on that hustle for sure.
Speaker 3:Yes, because I was in telecommunications for a while. Yeah, at ibm I was known as miss modem.
Speaker 2:Oh, because I would.
Speaker 3:I would sell you new modems before your other ones were installed. Yes, you had to pay me for both. Okay, I like that. That's what's up. That's what's up, and and you know what, even hearing the both.
Speaker 1:Okay, I like that that's what's up. That's what's up. And you know what? Even hearing the word modem, d-hustle, that takes me way back right. I mean nowadays getting connected to the internet, you know, just over regular cell phone networks.
Speaker 2:We don't have that beautiful noise that goes on anymore. Yeah, that beautiful noise, right, can you?
Speaker 1:imagine. Hang up the phone yes, exactly. Exactly, definitely. So your career definitely started off at a company that's, you know, well established in terms of Xerox, ibm. Ibm is still kicking till this day. You eventually transitioned into more of on the educational impact, community stuff, community value that you're providing Right, how did that transition happen?
Speaker 3:happened when I was at Sprint and I was told that one year I hired 16 people to be in our executive development program and 8 of them happened to be black from the top business schools one from Cornell, one from MIT, four from Wharton one from UVA and another one from Chicago and my manager told me we're sitting on a campus of over 14,000 people, and my manager told me we were sitting on a campus of over 14 000 people.
Speaker 3:My manager told me I hired too many black people. Why that was eight. I call my grade eight okay, yeah I hired 16 people. But that's sweet 16, but my grade eight, when it wasn't really stood out for me, and when I realized that, you know, are they going to get the right opportunities here, yeah, and if not, then maybe we need to move on.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. So I ended up I say I quit and stayed. You know, in my mind I quit, saying I know that I'm not going to be here for long. I need to do something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I ended up going to work with a young lady who was doing the Black MBA magazine, and then I started my own executive search and consulting firm called pks executive search thank you for that, porsche, and let me, let me make sure the audience heard, uh, this story here because it really just makes me even question sometimes. Porsche mentioned that she brought in an amount of, you know, black individuals and then, unfortunately, management schools from the top schools From the top schools Meaning like they're not. They are selling.
Speaker 2:They're there, they're ready to go.
Speaker 1:And you were told that you brought in too many black people.
Speaker 2:I was told, ah, that's crazy, that's crazy. That was the year 2000.
Speaker 1:That's a one book right there and that's the 2000,. Right, I Right. I want to first of all say, portia, I don't know if anybody has told you this, but we really do appreciate you and thank you for recognizing things like that, because during that time it would have been easy for you to been like brush it off your shoulder and keep moving, but you made a stand for it.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, because you understood what it meant in terms of number one, finding understanding where access is. And then, when access was given, it was quickly ripped away by saying that too many people had access to get in right.
Speaker 3:Um, and they were all stars, oh my god. And today they are stars, that's what's up?
Speaker 2:everywhere they go shout out to them yes, absolutely yeah cio ctos I mean they are presidents of divisions.
Speaker 1:They are, they are doing it that's what's up and and this is like foundational why I enjoy being in your presence is because I know the reason why you do things and why you're making the impact. You are is for things and stories like you've already experienced, right? Yes, because without you, they may have not even had the opportunity to work there and or be in their positions now. They would have eventually gotten there, in my opinion. I think I'm priceless. I'm going to work hard, right.
Speaker 3:Right, right right.
Speaker 1:But when you know that you see something special in them and or their abilities are being overlooked, you're one of those that speaks up loud. Oh, without a doubt, and we very much appreciate you.
Speaker 3:One young lady. I was told and this was before the year 2000, and I was told that if I hired her, she was from Duke University, had her MBA, if I hired her and she didn't do well, that they were going to fire me.
Speaker 1:That's what HR told me. That's another whomp whomp for me.
Speaker 3:And I just got divorced.
Speaker 1:I was a single mom.
Speaker 3:And my manager asked me do you still want to hire? I said yes, I do. And she said well then you're a fool. I said I know she's going to do well yeah, yeah and today she's a cto.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, that's c-suite. Right, okay, the c-suite yeah, and imagine just the amount of pressure that you had on you in terms of just life that was weighing um the challenges that you're experiencing, and then you still honored that thing. That you knew for a fact. Uh is amazing, portia. So, uh, if nobody hasn't told you this, we love you thank you so much. I said it loud and clear we love Portia.
Speaker 1:We very much appreciate and we thank you for these type of contributions because, um, a lot of people don't realize you. You said that's 2000,. Right, that's right. That's not that far along. I graduated high school. I'm getting my age in 2000, right.
Speaker 1:Right, right, it wasn't really that long ago, it's not that too long ago and even with that, you only were bringing in eight and or dealing with this one individual that was being blocked. And it's amazing and I can't wait until we go through even more in the story, because Portia not only just makes these type of impacts to our community, you're actually pouring directly into that cup by being a part of an organization at Carrotcom right. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3:So tell us a little bit about Bury, about Vines has always been making sure that we have a pipeline of people, and so when I started my own company, I was working with another telecommunications company, verizon, doing a project at Wharton and met a young man that I continued to stay in touch with. I thought he was super sharp and evidently he thought something highly of me as well, because when he started his own company, which was Carrot, he asked me to come back, come and join him as his diversity person.
Speaker 2:Oh that's what's up and so shout out to both companies brilliant black minds and carrot, that's it.
Speaker 3:So where I was at carrot, one of the things I realized we were going around and giving out interviews to students at at stanford and uh, uc, berkeley and I said well, what about howard university? I happen to be on the dean's advisory board at the business school. So they said, well, we hadn't even thought about that. So I said, well, let's give them some interviews.
Speaker 3:So the dean introduced me to the head of the CS department and we took a group of students and I said I want some of your best and brightest. And then, bobby, not one of those students passed the assessment.
Speaker 2:So I got disappointed.
Speaker 3:And I said well, let me go to En-ROADS. And so I went to my friend at En-ROADS who was the CEO, and I asked Forrest, give me some students? He gave me several students, and I think only two or three of them passed, and so that's when I realized that we have an issue.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 3:So I did a focus group with them and said what is missing.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:For sure. I did a focus group with them and said what could we what? What is missing? And that's when they told me and I did it with one of the co-founders, Jeff Spector, of Carrot, and what we found out was that a lot of them said we're not even connected to anybody in tech. So when you're talking about the companies out of Silicon Valley, we don't know what a technical interview is. No one has ever told us when we were in school they're talking about behavioral interviews.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct.
Speaker 3:So when I get to, let's say, an Apple and let's say you know Bobby's the smartest one in our group you interview at Apple. They don't hire you, but nobody else goes and applies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then what?
Speaker 3:happens after a while. Apple continues to come and they stop coming because they said nobody even comes to our little booth, and so we realized that there was an issue. If your parents some of them were first-generation college students, some of them knew no one in tech, and so who was going to really prepare them? Because the professors, as an example, while they know algorithms and data structures, they've never taken a technical interview. So, how can you teach how to do a technical interview if you've never done it yourself?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's amazing, because definitely something that I want to make sure we catch in this conversation here is is Portia bringing up something that I noticed as an engineer when I was at the keyboard? Something that I noticed as an engineer when I was at the keyboard is because I interviewed students from all of these colleges, from the Ivy Leagues to HBCUs to community college, and in general, one thing that we noticed quickly was the gap in terms of what they're learning in school. Absolutely, it's definitely honorable to go to school to study computer science, but we really want you to be a computer science engineer. That's right. Not just theory, but practice, and if it is practice, we want you practicing the things that we're working on, bleeding edge stuff, the newest tech and or. What was missing in that gap was like the curriculum was not catching up to where the industry was going.
Speaker 3:It was not because what companies were were revealing is that, and some of our hbcus and even some of the pd pwis, if they weren't teaching algorithms and data structures until their junior yeah, junior year, then they lost out on those internships 100 and then, when companies were looking at their resumes, they said well, where was your internship? You were at starbucks doing what? Yes you know making drinks you were barista that that's not the same as a software engineering opportunity for a summer internship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure so they thought something may have been wrong with the person, when it really was just not having access to to a real job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in that field.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, because we always say you have to practice your craft.
Speaker 1:One hundred percent. One hundred percent. Yeah, I was actually, and this is the reason why we all in Atlanta we're here at the NSBE National Society for Black Engineering Conference, and today we were doing some resume reviews for a lot of the attendees, and one thing that I was mentioning to them is how valuable it is for a technologist like me to see your GitHub and see you actually working on it, right.
Speaker 1:Because I tell them like and this is just for anyone that's listening in is like, on your GitHub, there's a calendar that's on there and that calendar has some green on it, that green for me, when I describe it to them, I say yo, that means that you're in the gym, you're practicing right, you're showing me that you're playing like an engineer and ready for the big league. If I go to your GitHub and I don't see that, Then there's an issue.
Speaker 3:There's an issue, you're not serious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Right. It's like how much real work are you putting in you want and how much thousands, hundreds of thousands you want to make a year Right Is. Things like that are examples of where our community doesn't get the info or the memo on that Right, and I'm so inspired by Carrot Bleeding Black Minds program of enlightening that and open that up. So tell me a little bit, like how did that program evolve from hey what services Carrot provides, such as technical interview preparation and practicing a mock interview, to actually the brilliant back-and-line branch of the organization?
Speaker 3:Yes, and what Carrot actually does is we do first-round interviews for companies who are hiring lots of software engineers, and what we realized is that the students at first didn't know what a technical interview was. So we felt like we needed to give them not only an overview of what a technical interview is, but also give them the opportunity to practice with feedback. And so we went out to. As a matter of fact, we came here, we partnered. At that time we were a very small company. We couldn't afford to do a whole lot more free interviews, so we partnered with CZI.
Speaker 2:Jan.
Speaker 3:Zuckerberg Initiative, and a brother who was the chief diversity officer there, maurice Wilkins, who gave us the opportunity to actually say, okay, I believe in you, let's move forward with something. And I said, well, you know, let's go to Howard. He said we're not going to Howard, I'm a Morehouse man.
Speaker 2:That's always something Okay, no problem.
Speaker 3:No problems, no problems, that's it. So we started here right in the ATL, at Morehouse, and we worked with a professor there who was over at the CS department and he gave us the opportunity to go into, you know, to have a session at school. Invite not only the students at Morehouse, but Clark, atlanta, as well as Spelman.
Speaker 2:Come on over.
Speaker 3:We're going to tell you what a technical interview is. We're going to help you practice it real time, and then we're going to give you an opportunity to sign up for free interviews for sure so that you can get get that knowledge and that experience right because that experience there's a lot of my mentees.
Speaker 1:One of their biggest like fear is that they just don't know what it is to go through an interview. Right, they don't know like, uh, they've read about it, they've even seen some youtubes on it, people preparing for it but it's still different to go through that process and really what? What I enjoy about Carrot in terms of the value that Brilliant Brown Minds brings to our community, is that you are getting that firsthand experience.
Speaker 3:You're getting that firsthand experience from someone who normally interviews experienced hires for these big tech companies as well as just big enterprises period, and so you get that same expertise to tell you here's what you did well and here's some of the things you need to practice on. Yeah, and then to give you an opportunity, after you do that, to come back and do another interview.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's one of the things that I think is so wonderful about Brilliant Black Minds and Karen at that time. As a matter of fact, fast forward when we were doing the Morehouse the Howard.
Speaker 3:We were doing some HSIs. When George Floyd was murdered, carrot said we need to do something for the black community. So they decided that well, we decided that we were going to give away a million dollars worth of free interviews. I was calling the program at first the Dr Scoop program and the co-founder said you know, that name's not going to work. You need to come up with something a little bit different, and so we ended up partnering with a marketing firm called Ghost Note out of DC. Three brothers growing up together in.
Speaker 3:DC, went to FAMU, came back, started their own marketing firm and they gave us three names, and so, rather than us try to choose what name, we decided to give it to the students at morehouse as well as howard.
Speaker 1:yeah, they came back with bringing black minds give it a round of applause let me tell you that that's how a community does it. Right there, because the things that I'm just catching, uh, porsche, is how committed you are, because you went to go to a firm that understands our community. That's right, and not just say, hey, tell me, but give me three options. And then, going to the community that you're going to impact directly with your students and say, yo, which one of these do you think y'all would pull up to?
Speaker 3:right, exactly, you get the name right, that's where we got the name, that's exactly it. So that's what yes and so and so, at the time, covid hit when we were introducing Bringing Back Minds, so luckily we were able to go into the classrooms virtually.
Speaker 3:So, we were able to talk to the students and the professors and really better understand what are you facing, what are your fears, what are some of the gaps. Tell me about your internship and wonder what happened when you didn't get an internship return offer, and so we were able to peel back the onion a lot. I think they got comfortable not only with myself, but I call her my road dog, luce Mendel, who was a software engineer at Carrot at the time, and so Luce and I were in the classrooms talking to the students, and then they realized they could be open and honest with us, and so they said hey, this is all great and wonderful, but we didn't even know that we could negotiate. Okay, we don't even know, when we get the job, what to do the first 90 days on the job, whether it's an internship or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just in case you didn't know that was jumps. That's right, that's jumps, okay.
Speaker 3:And some of them said I have a fear of even doing it. Am I smart enough? So, that's when we realized there was some imposter syndrome going on.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 3:So we ended up partnering with some people. I call them FOPs. Like you, are a friend of Portia's. For sure, okay, and bringing them in to actually do workshops for us.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure.
Speaker 3:So Goose and I workshops for us for sure, for sure, and I created some workshops. We had other people come in and create workshops, some people in the diversity space, especially in tech, to be able to really drop gems for the students. So they knew exactly what was happening and shout out to loose to loose and shout out to the whole fop crew out there did I say it right.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's it.
Speaker 1:Friends of porsche's friends of of Portia's we out, here we represent oh my gosh, portia, this stuff right here is, it just lifts me up because I know, in terms of just journey wise, where you started from, where you ran into the challenges, running into those. You know corporate, you know rubberneckers I call them because they look and then they don't even recognize you right and then you're moving forward to eventually getting to a point where you're at with brilliant black mounds and then the impact that you have because that's the thing that's even more powerful when you're talking about your story earlier, ceo ctos, now right, right, the students that you've you've had impacted. I know they're killing it in the industry and they're also giving back to the community, which is always that, that flywheel reason?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, we have to do that. Yeah, and that's what we tell. You know, I met some students here at the NSBE conference and I told them they need to join and no matter where they are in their journey, and some who are new in their career, you need to give back.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because there's somebody behind you that you need to help up 100%. That's all about the game. You that you need to help up 100%. That's all about the game, because if we don't help one another, who else is going to help us? They?
Speaker 1:ain't going to do it for us. They're not going to do it for us, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:If you're not hearing that those gems are going to leave. Gentlemen, please, D-D.
Speaker 1:Hustle gots it, bro. You can do it, you can do it. These friends of Portia's, I like that. I really do like it too, I'm about to go get a tattoo. Fop. We out here, Okay, and one of the friends of Portia's is a really good friend of mine. I haven't had a chance to work with him in terms of at the keyboard, but I've been working with him on this scene in terms of impacting our community directly by mentoring, coaching and teaching. And big ups to my guy, Anthony D Mays.
Speaker 3:Anthony directly by mentoring, coaching and teaching. And big up to my guy Anthony D Mays. Anthony, yes, anthony D.
Speaker 1:Mays Compton. Let's go Big ups to Anthony D Mays. So tell me a little bit about how you met Anthony and definitely the impact that he's making at the organization at Breeding Black Minds.
Speaker 3:Sure, I will tell you that I met Anthony through En-ROADS. He's an En-ROADS alum. He the En-ROADS alum. He's also a NSBE alum.
Speaker 1:Ah, that's what's up.
Speaker 3:And so when I told the CEO of En-ROADS what we were doing, he said of course you've got to meet Anthony. And so, Anthony, as a matter of fact, we just hit it off instantly and, as a matter of fact, I do an event.
Speaker 1:we do at.
Speaker 3:Carrot called Real Talk Diversity in Tech. That's what's up. And so we had our very first one at Snap out in LA. And guess who was the moderator? Fdd? Yeah, my guy came in.
Speaker 1:He came in and it was fire. Let me tell you it was fire.
Speaker 3:Yes because he told his story as to how he went from Compton to Google. For sure, and so that was amazing, I think, for everybody in the audience to hear that. And we wanted him to repeat it so that other people understood that you can be at Google.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 3:You don't have to say well, I don't think they want anybody that looks like me.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you do have that opportunity. That's amazing.
Speaker 3:And without him, I think, for us, we would not be where we are, because I think that he brought the number one. Some people recognize him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And others who didn't. Once they heard, he, they, they didn't want to let go of it, they were tuned in. They were tuned in, yeah, and so for him to be able to say you know, why are you not, why are you not a part of bringing back minds, because they bring in black minds? What we're able to do, like I said, said we gave away a million dollars worth of free interviews.
Speaker 3:It's like where else are you gonna get free interviews? Facts, facts, okay, because nobody else is going to give you the free interviews plus feedback yeah other than us? Yeah, and then where else are you going to have a community? Build a community of people who are like you? Yeah, look like you other than bringing black minds 100%?
Speaker 1:Round of applause for that. This is why I personally, when they were going to the roster like who do you want on the podcast, backstage with Bobby D, I was like yo y'all need to highlight Porsche Campbell Smith If y'all want to hear the real deal.
Speaker 3:I mean it was it was not only Anthony, but it was, I mean, along the journey, because of his expansive network.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know we were able to, that's what we ran into me, that's it Facts, right you know.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's how we got connected with you. Yeah, I also went on LinkedIn and met Esco. Esco Obong, I mean it's like he works at Airbnb, yeah, yeah, I mean and he's got a huge community of followers, and so just being able to connect with people like that has helped our program progress to where it is, and I'm proud to say that today that we are embarking on 8,000 members, let's give a big round of applause 8,000 members.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:And when I think back and I told somebody today, I said you know, it really hasn't been that long ago. It was in 2020 when we started Brilliant Black Minds.
Speaker 2:It was a fall.
Speaker 3:And so here we are, you know, three and a half years later. And we're at 8,000. When we started with maybe about 500.
Speaker 1:That's what's up. Yeah, big shout out to everything that you got going on. Shout out to Nesby too.
Speaker 3:Yes, because, nesby, I will tell you that we made a tremendous impact last year. We had a booth there and, in order to attract some of the students, we had a photographer that came in from New York doing some great photos for us Headshots and stuff.
Speaker 1:Headshots, that's right and that was hot. Yeah, yeah, that was hot.
Speaker 3:So we had lines of folks who stood, who stood there in line and we got their information saying are you uh, you know, are you a computer science major?
Speaker 1:you, want to be a software engineer.
Speaker 1:This is the right line for you yeah get you know and they didn't even know what they were getting. Because when one thing that carrot provides or through the beer and batman project or program is free interviewing right, and if anything that I can always recommend to my mentees is like, the more practice you get, the more engagement you get, the more relaxed you're going to be when it's real game time right, and if you can increase that frequency you're going to be better than most people that we see, because enough people aren't taking advantage of things like that.
Speaker 3:Right, and speaking of practice, I mean that was one of the things that you know, anthony, honed in on. You've got to practice your craft. But, more importantly, we we partnered with serena williams and she's our champion of brilliance. So anthony and I got a chance to meet her when she announced the partnership yeah with karen.
Speaker 3:We were all there, the founders as well as, yeah, uh, myself and anthony and got a chance to meet her and her family and her crew, because she made an announcement at the Miami Tech event that she's going to be partnering with Carrot and her thing was, when we look at only 5% of people who are in tech or black and software engineers.
Speaker 3:She said we need to double that number Facts, yes. And so that was what Serena brought to the table, saying let's not look at just adding a few more, let's double that number Facts. And so we were very proud to have her. And when you think about practicing, that's what she does all the time. Practice doesn't make perfect, but it makes progress.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%. Yes, makes progress. Oh, 100, 100, and and you know, I remember that announcement. When I seen it, I was first, though, because it's down south, we we from down south and I remember it was miami tech week and then I heard serena williams was making an announcement and then I read it online. I'm like, oh, word, carrot, wow, that's really kill it, because I knew that foundationally, you were offering the perfect service, especially for those that are underrepresented, for them to elevate quickly and get into the industry.
Speaker 3:That's right. Congratulations, yes, and to see both her and Anthony from Compton and where they are today.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:That was amazing. That was amazing for me just to be in their presence and to say okay, these are two people from Compton that people may have given up on but they excelled in their craft 100% 100% and, oh my gosh, it sounds like a fairytale story when you put it all together.
Speaker 1:But that also just foundationally inspires the next generation, because one of the things that Anthony and I always enjoy is number one, just being ourselves in front of our mentees, or the youth, the young ones, because when they have this vision of what an engineer looks like, it usually doesn't fit my profile, it fits Anthony's profile, or Anthony rocks his Compton hat.
Speaker 1:I used to wear my Jordans and I used to just modern wear, street wear, going into the office and then, as soon as they see that, they're like, oh, I can be myself and still do this, oh, and you just tell me I got to keep practicing, keep it up, and I'm like, yeah, you can definitely do it. If I'm here and Anthony's here, you can definitely do that.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can.
Speaker 3:Yes, because I mean, what we found is that a lot of the students came to interviews suited and booted, you know, with the ties on the, you know the jackets and all that, and they were interviewing with somebody with a t-shirt on or sweatshirt on. Okay, they didn't even realize that you can be relaxed and I think that environment helps us also to grow, because once they start practicing a lot, then they realize I can do this, I'm not so bad, this works for me, I got the right answer.
Speaker 3:Because, sometimes, what some of the students would tell me is that somebody asked them a question. They knew the answer to it, but they thought it was too simple. So they answered it wrong Because they thought, well, they couldn't be asking me that, and that's where the practice came in. It's like you need to be able to recite back to them is this what you're asking? And make sure that you're on the same page before you actually answer the question, correct?
Speaker 2:correct.
Speaker 3:Oftentimes, students would try to solve the problem without talking about it, and most interviewers want to hear how did you come to that solution? 100%. So you need to just have those conversations, and that's what Anthony and Luz both you know brought to the table to our audience. Yeah, that here's, you can be yourself, you can say, and then somebody may say hey, have you ever thought about doing this? Oh no, well, okay, let me go down that path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it just helps them grow, if nothing else they want 100, and then I really do like like that lesson that you mentioned, because I also have some guidance and inspiration for the next generation, and this is something that's really impactful is like just understanding. Like sometimes during the interview process, you're thinking of the most complex answer and all we're doing is just simple progression, iterating, going half. We will get there. But let's first talk about this first step. Yes, it is that simple. Yes, I know it seems that way because we're building up. And then the conversation part. That's like number one for me. Like if I ever done an interview with somebody and I've done hundreds of interviews and they jump in there and just start, I'm like all right, I don't know if I want to work with you.
Speaker 2:And that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 1:Because if we're solving a problem together, you and I need to conversate like what do you see? Oh, you see it that way, I see it this way. All right, let's see if we and now we can go draft some code and create some output or whatever we're doing to prove our theories. But it is so important that you all are giving that service to them early so they can catch it, yes, and then when they get into the interview I like going to interviews when I see somebody chilling like this, like oh yeah, we're, we're ready right, You're sitting too tight too, like all right, I got to loosen you up a little bit, Because that's what we want to see in you as an engineer is you be yourself.
Speaker 1:Because and this is another thing that I always tell people is like at companies like Google, Facebook and where I was at, at Twitter, we used to have this saying that we can teach you to code, but that we can teach you to code, but we can't teach you to people.
Speaker 1:We can't teach you to interact with people right, because we want you to have that, because we have a team of five individuals and we want you to be the fifth, sixth person right, and if you can't interact with the other people, then it's going to be tough sitting on the bench. Yeah, you're sitting on the bench on the sideline that's right especially yeah, yes
Speaker 1:so one question that I do have in terms of just really just locking in this concept that we're talking about is, like what guidance would you give to like the youth, the young ones that are inspiring to tech professionals and more or less being able to see themselves in this field, in this career that we're pursuing?
Speaker 3:people who look like you don't be afraid to, whether it's join, bringing back minds. We have a discord group. Reach out to somebody there who might be more senior and say, hey, could I do you have 15 minutes? Because, if nothing else, I think we need to have more conversations so they know that they can be who you are today yeah even though they may say well, you know, it took him 10 years, it took them five years. Well, guess what Time goes by real fast.
Speaker 1:For sure, especially when you're having fun, especially when you're doing something that you love.
Speaker 2:It's not like work, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know and when you can go in and collaborate with people on a daily basis. And I will tell you that now we've expanded Brilliant Black Minds so that anybody, no matter whether you're in school, whether you've got one or two years of work experience or 10 years of work experience, you can join.
Speaker 1:That's what's up.
Speaker 3:Which is wonderful as long as you're black.
Speaker 1:That's what it's all about. We've got to do it for us.
Speaker 2:We've got to do it for us. That's the only caveat.
Speaker 3:And so when I think about that community that we built 8,000 people that look like you, that are doing things at all different levels then you can find somebody in that group that you can be mentored, by. That you can mentor no matter where you are. You say well, ms Portia, I'm just a junior. Well, guess what? We've got freshmen in the group.
Speaker 3:So can you reach out to them. Or, ms Portia, I just got my job. Well, can you help somebody understand how you got your job so you can help them prepare for a job and what you did to be successful, even your first year? So, no matter what, you have the ability to drop gems on other people, and so our community is built of brilliant black minds.
Speaker 1:Facts facts, big pick ups to you, and definitely listening to this advice that you're giving to the next generation is going to be foundational. Now, if you are listening you didn't catch it there's a rewind button. Press that rewind button and play it again, because I'm listening and I caught it, but I'm still going to replay it again. That's what's up, portia, and this is something like in just your journey itself, the pouring that you're doing in terms of giving back, oh my gosh, this is amazing and we really do appreciate you.
Speaker 3:I don't know how much more I gotta tell you that we appreciate you, and I do want to mention one thing that I think a lot of people don't understand is that, as a community, we have a tendency to not share how much money we make. So a lot of people don't understand is that, as a community?
Speaker 3:we have a tendency to not share how much money we make, okay. So a lot of people don't even know how much money can you make when you are graduating with as a software engineer. So I asked some students uh, I had a student ambassador at howard give me some ideas to where you're going, how much money, money you're going to make, what city are you going to? What company are you going to? What city is it in? Tell me how much your package is? And same school, same degree, same professors from 75,000. In New York City.
Speaker 2:Where are?
Speaker 3:you going to live With your auntie and four other folks To 200,000 in Seattle.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And everything in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And the students didn't share information with one another, and that's what I wanted them to do to better understand what is the? You know what's the going rate right now?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because they need to know. Here's what I should be asking for. And so many times they were afraid to ask. And that's no matter where they are in their career when they get a job offer. Many of them just are so happy with whatever number they gave. It's like I didn't know that I was going to make $120,000 a year doing this, so I'm going to take the first one. It's like not even realizing that you should be getting one 50 above 50.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then the other things cost a living, the things that you're not taking into consideration.
Speaker 3:Cause one. One brother told me he was going to live in, go to San Francisco and he was going to make 90,000. I said you ain't going to live in San Francisco, I'm going to have a hard time finding a place in Oakland. I don't know where you're going to live for that 100, 100.
Speaker 1:And Portia. This is another thing in terms of just the process, in terms of just understanding how much leverage we have during that point in the interview process in terms of accepting or negotiating the offer. But something that our community doesn't do often enough is consider negotiation and we're losing out because if you think about the the one that took the ninety thousand dollars offer um, the cost of living obviously is way too high, so they're going to have to live in a very small, tight place and then the amount of contributions they're doing at work.
Speaker 1:I guarantee you, if they look like me and you, they're going to be doing two, three times more than their work. So they're not even getting paid for that, no, and then you have to wait for that time to be promoted, to catch up where you're supposed to be starting from well, let me.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you what happened with uh. It was three, three, three young men that uh two of them did not come to the the negotiations workshop that luce and I had same company, three different jobs. Two of them got paid 140, 500. Okay, that was the base. They accepted that because they're happy. Yeah, you go home you tell your mother you're making that kind of money.
Speaker 3:Your mom and dad together don't make 140 000 in most of our communities yeah and most of the households in our community and the guy who came to that workshop to that workshop. The loosen idea same company, same location 183,000. Wow.
Speaker 2:Okay, a round of applause.
Speaker 3:Okay, yes, Now, that's a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:When you think about the salary and what kind of lifestyle I mean. That says I'm saving for a house or I'm saving for my retirement, where the others are not going to be able to do that because they're saving to live, that's right, they're trying to pay bills every month and so that's why Luce and I were so adamant about explaining to people how you should be negotiating and, within the Bringing Black Minds community, sharing that with them, because sometimes we just don't know what we don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's something that I think our community really needs to work on. Is that sharing part right? Yes, sometimes, and when I talk to mentees about it, sometimes they feel like they're boosting up their chest, they're trying to be too private. No, it's information.
Speaker 1:It is information right and and if, if, if, anybody, we're all celebrating that you got that, you achieved it right. It's almost as if something that happens in South Florida, and I believe D hustle was telling me this. He had a neighbor in his neighborhood that's trying to sell his house over market price, yeah Right. And the thing is is that once that house sells for that over market price guess what? Everybody in that neighborhood. We're starting from that point. That's right, exactly.
Speaker 3:We don't know if we have no idea. We have someone who helps in bringing back minds, who helps people understand. You know you got an offer. Now let me help you negotiate that.
Speaker 2:Now let me help you negotiate that offer Okay.
Speaker 3:So this one gentleman was able to help somebody and the person ended up making and it's almost unbelievable $150,000 more than what they were making as a software engineer.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, that's life-changing, right there Life-changing.
Speaker 3:Life-changing. Then you can get back to the community. For sure, get back to you, then you have an opportunity. I mean we all should be doing that, no matter what amount of money, but it just gives you that flexibility.
Speaker 3:Because you didn't even know. You didn't even know there was that type of money out there, correct? So when somebody says, oh no, they're underpaying you, you know what they offered you. No, it should be at this amount, you should be closer to here. And so many of us are afraid that if we negotiate that they're going to take away the offer Okay, when in fact they want you. They're trying to check you off.
Speaker 3:They're trying to say, okay, I closed one, good, let's move on to the next person. So they're trying to get the deal done. Let's move on to the next person. So they're trying to get the deal done and so just by saying, we're not going to lose the offer by just a few thousand dollars, but you need to ask for what you're worth For sure.
Speaker 1:And you're hitting a key point here. This is kind of like. I remember seeing a slide where they showed like a seesaw during the interview process, where when the seesaw is up like this, that means the company has leverage. But when they say, oh, you are the one, you went through all of that and you're still here and you got it, oh, you are the one, that's when that seesaw flips the other way, where you as the individual have more leverage and we just need to stand in it and not be afraid of it, because lot of people don't know how difficult it is to hire great people, great engineers, for them to go through that process. Yeah, they did the data structure, algorithms, behavior match with the team. Oh, man, you, you perfect for this right, that's that opportunity knowing what you're worth yes, knowing what you're worth yes, but.
Speaker 3:But sometimes we don't even know that because we're not sharing the data with one another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So if you're listening. Sharing the data with one another? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So if you're listening, share the data with each other. Yes, I'm sharing. Yes, no doubt.
Speaker 1:All right, portia. So the next segment that we're going to talk about is kind of like the future of tech inclusivity. I think a lot of changes are happening in our country right now around this, and I actually just read something about something happening in Alabama where state legislation about diversity and inclusion and stuff like that and restricting that from being mentioned in terms of requirements for organizations. Have you run into any of that with your partners that you work with and or, in general, just have an opinion about that?
Speaker 3:Well, I will tell you that there are a lot of companies that I think are pulling back and they don't feel like DEI is as important. But I think when you look at their employees, no matter what color they are, they know how important it is, because they look in the C-suite and they look on the boards and if they don't see someone who is of color, then sometimes they even turn away both black and white, no matter what color they are. They're looking at that and right now, because the economy is where it is, then maybe the companies have a little bit more leverage, but as soon as they and it will never stay the same- so as soon as it flips, they're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 3:Those who are not committed to DEI are going to lose people because people are going to let their feet do the voting. They're going to walk out the door. For sure and go someplace else where they appreciate DEI.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Because it's here to stay, no matter what. When we look at you know what is our country going to. What is it going to look like in the next 20 years? It's not going to be all white.
Speaker 1:Definitely not yes. It's going to be more people of color, both black and brown, for sure, yes, and so we've just got to make sure that we're in those C-suites 100% yes, and that's why, even from the beginning of our conversation, where you're saying that your first graduates into your community are now C-suites oh, absolutely, they are.
Speaker 3:Because that's the impact. That's the impact. That's what we have to make sure that we are seen and heard and we can perform, and we know that we can perform. Yes, like they said, if we're not at the table, then we need to bring a folding chair and put ourselves at the table.
Speaker 2:We're right in the room. We're going to be in the room, no matter what Exactly.
Speaker 1:You can't keep us out.
Speaker 2:You can't keep us out.
Speaker 1:For sure, For sure. So one last question that I have here is can you tell me if there's any like current projects or initiatives that you're working on that you want to mention to our audience here at the Tech Hustle?
Speaker 3:I would say, more than anything, we are trying to get more companies because, you know, at the end of the day, the people in brilliant black minds are saying, hey, this is great, I love all this work, but at the end of the day, we need a job, and so what we put together are partners of brilliance to say, do you want to partner with us at Carrot to help increase the number of black software engineers in your company? Yeah, then please partner with us. We've got a community of 8,000. We will give you people who meet your bar, so you don't even have to worry about it. You tell us what your bar is, we'll send you people who actually met your bar, and then you can select. You take 10, you take 15, you take 5, you take 2, 1. It doesn't matter, we just want to make sure that there's somebody at your company that looks like us.
Speaker 1:For sure, 100%.
Speaker 3:Yes, and so we are excited about our relationship with some of those companies. And we've got Uber, duolingo, docusign, just to name a few. But American Express is in there Bloomberg and Zillow. So, we've got several companies and others that are saying, hey, I want to be a part of this. And then others who are hearing about it and saying, well, I didn't even know this existed, even at Nesbitt. When I'm meeting companies they're like what? You've got 8,000 black software engineers. I said you know.
Speaker 1:This is where it's at. This is where it's at. Check my resume yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and some of them want to join. Yeah, they say well, what can I do to help? I met a man today, you know, who was saying hey, I've been a software engineer, I'm, I'm a leader. Now I'm an engineering leader yeah. What can I do to help that community?
Speaker 3:That's what's up, and that's you know, and that's what we need to bring in people. But they, if they didn't know about bringing black lives, then they don't know, then they don't know so sure that we can get people jobs at the end of the day and that they can also pull in other people. Because, no matter what, once they become a member of Breeding Black Minds, no matter where they go, they're going to take that sign with them.
Speaker 1:That's a swag right. Take that swag with them. Let them know. Thank you so much for that, portia. A big round of applause for Bearing Back Minds and projects that you have going on. If there are any organizations looking to partner with Building Back Minds, hit up D-Hustle. He handles most of that, but definitely Portia Campbell-Smith. You can definitely find her online LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:And if not, come holler at your boy. I got you for sure. Yes, yes, yes. All right, so we coming to the tail end of our conversation here. Portia, this is one of our segments where we're going to give you a chance to ask me any questions that you may have, and if you don't, we can cut it short, but if you do, definitely I got a question for Portia later.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 3:Yep, and I would say, more than anything I'm curious about, as you're going around the country, what are you hearing from even some of those who are looking for jobs, because I know that there are a lot of people who were impacted, you know, last year, this year, or you know, are great software engineers, senior software engineers, that are without work? And what they're doing in order to stay healthy.
Speaker 3:For sure, and to be ready, because my thing, my little slogan, is we need to stay ready, so we don't have to get ready. Facts Okay, and just are they ready? Yeah, you know because I don't want them getting depressed about not having an opportunity. Yeah, and for them to be able to, you know, join Brilliant Black Minds. Practice a little bit, meet some people, because in that community there may be some people who post a job or a company that's coming and talking to the bringing black minds community about opportunities for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:So I have definitely had a few mentees um. So I've had ranges for mentees that I've had that are industry mentees, um, and the mentees that are getting into the industry. So the ones that are in the industry. We've definitely had a few of them that have been impacted by layoffs from all these top, top companies. One thing I do make sure I emphasize is just a realization that we are on a roller coaster, right.
Speaker 1:It has this up and down feeling right. I remember in 2000, when I first started, it was kind of after the dot-com bubble and we're coming back up and you can see how far we got and we're coming back down. It's just realizing that Number two is letting them know, like your asset wasn't the money they were giving you or the RSUs or stocks, your asset is actually the knowledge.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:That is the key, so that knowledge you gain, that's the thing that you're selling and that's the thing that you're putting out there in terms of resumes and contacting these companies, reaching out, because your ability to be an engineer is very tough to do what we do. It looks nice and glamorous on the outside, great salary, great thing, but that skill, that asset, is your key. And then the third thing is putting them up on the hustle right.
Speaker 1:We have these supplemental educational mediums in our organizations like Brilliant Black Minds. I've shipped a lot of people your way.
Speaker 1:And in general just letting them know that the value that you're going to gain by this time you have is sharpening the knives Right, because you have been an engineer at X Y Z company only learning about what X Y Z company do but I don't want you to be just like the colleges, get left behind from the industry is go and sharpen your knives near people that look like you and also the insights that they're going to give you and you can also get some interview preparation. So these are kind of the advices that I've been giving to a lot of my mentees out there and definitely you've seen them come across and for sure the value that we are providing during this time space is going to be invaluable to them because they're going to be able to take this and keep iterating, keep iterating.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I love the idea that you did the interview prep, because I think that's part of it too. You know, when you apply for a job, it goes almost in the black hole. So, you've got to have the keywords. You've got to be able to explain, because a lot of us are so modest about what we've done. So being able to say this is what your resume should look like what have you done? Let's put that on the resume. Let's make sure people know everything that you created at the company and the impact that you had.
Speaker 3:And let's put dollars behind it, you know, and then that way it helps them feel better, Because sometimes they look at the resume and say I didn't even know I was this good. Yes, we were able to help with the resume preparation. So just just getting that that done.
Speaker 1:Yeah so.
Speaker 3:I applaud you for doing that.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And you are right. This is this is my calling in terms of stepping away from being the engineer to really just getting this voice out and understanding in my mindset, because even my level of engineering I still have. I can't wait until people catch up with that too right. It's like that's why I'm pouring this into the cup, because I know eventually everybody will be at this level where I was like all right, are you ready for me, turn it up?
Speaker 1:Y'all didn't know what I created at Twitter. Y'all didn't know what I invented. Let's take it up to the next level and that's why I feel like, in terms of just the journey I'm on, I'm definitely at that impactful level, but I'm also ready to step up to the next one.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. That's what I love about you.
Speaker 1:So that gets us to the end of our conversation. You want to cue up the music real quick, dehussell, I got one more last question.
Speaker 2:I want to thank Portia for coming in today. But what gives you motivation? Who do you look up to? What inspires you?
Speaker 3:I will tell you that my mentor From my days at IBM, elena Ward Robinson, Elena Ward. Yes, has always been an inspiration for me. She was the first black woman to work in Louisiana for IBM. That wasn't a secretary and she came in and I believe she graduated from Grambling with her fro, that's what's up and I believe she graduated from Grambling with her fro. That's what's up and the things that she's done along the way and how she's always reached back and helped other people grow and has been an inspiration for me.
Speaker 3:She created the ITSMF. She was one of the founders for that.
Speaker 1:That's the ITIL certification right. No, no.
Speaker 3:This is an organization called ITSMF oh, I apologize, yes, uh-huh. And so you look them up online ITSMFleadersorg, and it's basically blacks in tech who are executives that's what's up and leaders, ctos, cios yeah, yeah, because that's what she was, and so just her journey has been amazing for me to watch and for her to be real. So she doesn't sugarcoat it. She doesn't sugarcoat anything. I don't care where you're at, no matter where you are on the ladder.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know she's able to talk from the top to the bottom and she treats everybody. You know she gives grace to everybody. Yeah, but she also will. You know she gives grace to everybody, yeah, but she also will get on you.
Speaker 1:She'll get in. Yeah, she will.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she will. She keeps it real. That's what's up, and we talk about real talk. That's Elena Ward Robinson. That's what's up.
Speaker 1:Yes, all right, Well, thank you so much again. I think this is going to be one of our best backstage with Bobby D. I never hit this so many times.
Speaker 2:All the gems, all the gems. Turn it up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Let's hear the music. A little bit the music. So, portia, again, thank you so much. We really do love you, appreciate everything that you do, big shout out to Brilliant Black Mounds and everything that you're working on. I'll let you, boy I'm always out here and get it too. So definitely let me know if I can continue to support and definitely our community is here to support you all too.
Speaker 2:So definitely let me know.
Speaker 1:Well, that's your end of episode for Backstage with Bobby D. I hope you enjoyed it and definitely remember there's this rewind button. Press that rewind button. Every time you heard D Hustle drop them gems. Rewind to that spot, because we got something for you. I promise you, though, at the end of the day, this is your opportunity to really get connected to us. We're the Tech Hustle, thetechhustlecom. Y'all know about the podcast because you're listening in, check out our newsletter, and yeah, we're going to be in these streets throughout the year. So definitely, holler at us, holler at your boy. It's Bobby D, all right,